Curse

Lonk · Sep 13, 2007, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Allright let me start off by saying I'm starting this topic here due to the GWO forums being too filled with flamewars and people not even listening, and me being optimistic that the guru forums can provide a bit better.

Now I'm hoping a logical discussion on the matter of the rainbow phoenix and it's current requirements can be had here, with pros and cons from all sides/ input from the community, and lack of random flame wars and "omg u want stuff free noob" posts

I'll start by linking a topic on GWO for those who visit there and would like a look at how badly it turned out there: http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forum...d.php?t=463909

Ok now let me try to explain why me and many other players feel that the rainbow phoenix IS special and DOES need to be earned, yet is a very bad choice for a reward for People Know Me title (ok not technically a reward, but since it's required it's practically a reward)

Now without getting into actual numbers, since noone but ANET would have them anyways, let's look at it this way: A small portion of all gw players are ranger/X or X/Ranger, now a small portion of that actively play beastmaster rangers, a smaller portion still have the People Know Me title or higher, a fraction of those have GW:EN, yet another fraction of those are actually willing to part with their current pet for the rainbow phoenix.

What does this mean? It means this reward does not benefit hardly anyone, the % of people who could get and actually use the rainbow phoenix is insanely small. We all know it's "special" but who is honestly going to put Charm Animal on their skillbar just to bring a pet along to show off in 99% of cases? As I've heard it said, this is sorta like rewarding a customized bow for maxing out 10 titles on 1 character, it is a very specific reward for something any class combo could get.

Now the point is not to say the Rainbow Phoenix should not be earned, or that there should not be a reward for People Know Me (though honestly displaying a title called that should be reward enough in my personal opinion).
I as well as others out there believe that a ranger pet is just simply the wrong reward for this, and should fall in place with something actually related to a pet-using ranger.

Here is a very basic concept that needs tweaking, admittedly, but would make more logical sense.

Create a new title track, for the purpose of this example we'll call this the Tamer title track. The Tamer title track would be sorta like Sunspear but for dedicated beastmasters and work as follows. For every level your pet(s) gain, you gain 1 point towards the title, and when you trade in a pet, you gain X amount of bonus points towards the title track IF the pet is level 20 when traded in (more on this very shortly).

The max rank could be Legendary Tamer for example, and the # of points required to max the track out, or even for each rank of it or # of ranks in the title track needs work, and could require a fair bit of effort to satisfy the grindhappy people out there. Now to explain the bonus points...

The reasoning behind bonus points would be that you'd give enough bonus points to stop people from just taming a level 5 pet, getting it to 10, then turning it in (more effort into leveling each pet). The reasoning behind the points being gained on leveling is so you dont just tame a level 20 pet and auto gain 20 points. now this still leaves one slight problem which I shall now fix. Trading in pets that start at level 15 or higher would not count towards bonus points, to prevent repeated taming of black moa.

Perhaps you could make the bonus points equal to the amount of levels you gained with that pet, for example you tame a level 5 pet, get it to 20, and trade it in, you'd get 15 + 15 points, you get a level 15 elder wolf or whatever in shiverpeaks, level it to 20 and trade it in, you gain 5 + 5 points.

I'd love to see some more ideas from the community on rewards for titles, ways to fix the current rainbow phoenix arguements, etc.

*note this also solves the problem of rangers just death-leveling to get points as well*

AaronSwitchblade · Sep 13, 2007, 05:39 AM // 05:39

/neither signed nor notsigned

I agree with your logic, this is not the right reward for that rank. However, I don't appreciate the situation enough to say whether I agree with your solution.

Fox Reeveheart · Sep 13, 2007, 05:42 AM // 05:42

I don't think this is the right track to have a phoenix on. And it is starting to tick me off being that I have played since prophecies release and have yet to max out a single title.

Sword · Sep 13, 2007, 07:51 AM // 07:51

I didnt even bother reading the post, PKM is easily attainable. If you even play the game remotely often you should have this title on a pve character.

Black Eagle · Sep 13, 2007, 10:14 AM // 10:14

Well, Unless your like some people and have 6 level 20 charachters, and play them all just as much as eachother.

Cebe · Sep 13, 2007, 10:32 AM // 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword

I didnt even bother reading the post, PKM is easily attainable. If you even play the game remotely often you should have this title on a pve character.

I have People Know Me, but what you said, sir, is pretty misleading. PKM may be "easy" to get in the sense that there are plenty of titles you can max for it, but consider how long it can take to max those titles...consider how much there is to do in Guild Wars, how potentially costly it can be (eg Sweet Tooth, Skill Hunter), and people enjoy playing different professions...for those people who work, or have to do things outside of the game and maybe only get 3-5 hours in the evening to play, gaining People Know Me does take a long time.

I'm confused why the phoenix is a randon gift for PKM, but I don't think it should be removed in favour of something else. Time for my Ele to go E/R and play Beastmaster. Please don't tell me off for that

tmakinen · Sep 13, 2007, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Hmm ... PKM is neither hard nor expensive. Titles that you can max with little effort and zero gold are:

Lightbringer
Sunspear
Protector (3 titles)
Cartographer (4 titles)

After completing the above you have 9 maxed titles and certainly enough gold to max one of the skill hunter titles and there you have your PKM.

IVI is not expensive either if you go the Guardian/Vanquish way but a bit more demanding, after that you'll really have to start burning money to make some progress.

I would have liked it if each rank on the KoaBD track unlocked a different celestial pet: deer for KoaBD, wolf for PKM, tiger for IVI, phoenix for IHMLBB ... (dragon for GWAMM?

) and to satisfy the PvP side, an alternative way to unlock those would've been through the hero title track, corresponding with fame emotes.

odly · Sep 13, 2007, 10:53 AM // 10:53

I'm now using the combo "charm animal+spitefull spirit" instead of "arcane echo + spitefull spirit". The damage is slightly less satisfying, but it looks great on the screen.

Cebe · Sep 13, 2007, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by odly

I'm now using the combo "charm animal+spitefull spirit" instead of "arcane echo + spitefull spirit". The damage is slightly less satisfying, but it looks great on the screen.

Ah you're using it on a N/R...I'm E/R..I'm thinking Thunderclap + Bestial Mauling? LOL

tmakinen · Sep 13, 2007, 11:46 AM // 11:46

A way to make pets useful to anybody who's not a beastmaster:

* pack mentality brings synergy: you can easily fit 4 Charm Animals and one Revive Animal into a H+H team - do not take Comfort Animal
* pets give monsters something else to gnaw than your party
* pets are a good source of corpses, especially in places that naturally lack those
* giving Olias Death Nova wrings one additional bit of usefulness out of your pets
* after raising minions revive pets, lather, rinse, repeat

There's a humorous side in getting monsters stomped by a suicidal flock of flamingoes, as well

R!ghteous Ind!gnation · Sep 13, 2007, 01:50 PM // 13:50

I tend to agree with the OP. GW rewards players who spend all of their time on only one char. perhaps have the pheonix appear based on the number of maxed titles on your account instead?

MithranArkanere · Sep 13, 2007, 02:14 PM // 14:14

The only single problem I see about the phoenix is that you cannot add it to the monument.

Lonk · Sep 13, 2007, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Allrighty, now while it is true you could use the pets as fodder/death nova/minion stuff, hardly anyone would do that anyways. Minions are quite easy enough to get going without "wasting" a skill slot on charm animal (and it's hard for me to say wasting considering pet ranger is the only ranger I play, I love pets).

As for my title track idea, I'd like to reiterate that it was a basic example not 100% thought out for anyone curious, and the point is that the reward should match the title track.

Right now it's a vanity item that can only appeal to a tiny tiny %, yet there's one flaw with the vanity item aspect too, you cannot have a ranger pet in town. Most anyone looking to show off would do so in town where people are at. I'm not saying people don't show off outside of town at all, but once again, a tiny tiny % of people do this, most of us are too busy actually playing the game to do that outside of town.

I for one want the rainbow phoenix to be just as hard to obtain, in terms of effort put into getting one, yet the concept of my title track would allow the people who actually want it and are dedicated to using ranger pets to be able to get one, and if you just want it to show off there's still crazy grinding to be done for a title track you can wear.

The real arguement could very well be that some people want thier title track to say one thing instead of another when displayed. For example a person would rather have People Know Me displayed with a rainbow phoenix at thier side over having something like Legendary Tamer in the same situation.

Now back to the vanity items in town and KoaBD title track, this title track is very obviously meant to attract attention, and can obviously be displayed in town. Even the names of the ranks of this title are references to a movie about a guy who likes attention. Now wouldn't a more fair reward for something like that, something any build/profession could use equally well yet still be a vanity item, be the Chaos Gloves from GW:EN or something of the sort?

Once again I've seen many people say I'm just wanting the phoenix for free with no work, and that is far from the truth. What my title track lacks is hard numbers but the basic idea is that it would require much effort in it as well, including maxing out the title, not just hitting rank 2 in it or something.

The only thing really missing is the hard numbers for each rank and how many ranks total this track would have. Yes I am a beastmaster ranger and yes I do want a rainbow phoenix, and no this doesn't limit the phoenix to rangers only anymore than it already is since as it is now it still requires you to go R/X or X/R to tame one.

Thanks to all who have taken the time to read my postings and who have contributed to this topic (on either side of the arguement) without breaking out into flaming.

*A note, it was brought up to me that a dedicated beastmater ranger would not want to get rid of their current pet to work on this title track, regardless of the rainbow phoenix reward. To compensate for that let's say hypothetically that this title track were added, and that pets were made to still gain exp after 20 as we do (sans skill point gains they cant use)

Instead of gaining skill points, every "level" beyond 20 would reward more points to the title track, so those rangers who simply wish to work towards the goal of maxing that title track out but who do not want the rainbow phoenix nor any other pet could still do so.

I think the real issue is not the bird exactly, but it's indictive of a growing problem that can be stopped right now before any potential harm is done, that problem being that titles are becoming more than just for display, and giving rewards that make no logical sense for those actual title tracks. If anet replaced the phoenix now with a plain warthog and the warthogs with the phoenix, I'd make the same arguement.

Full Metal X · Sep 14, 2007, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

A way to make pets useful to anybody who's not a beastmaster:

* pack mentality brings synergy: you can easily fit 4 Charm Animals and one Revive Animal into a H+H team - do not take Comfort Animal
* pets give monsters something else to gnaw than your party
* pets are a good source of corpses, especially in places that naturally lack those
* giving Olias Death Nova wrings one additional bit of usefulness out of your pets
* after raising minions revive pets, lather, rinse, repeat

There's a humorous side in getting monsters stomped by a suicidal flock of flamingoes, as well

I present you with. http://youtube.com/watch?v=znXGchXre_A

lakatz · Sep 16, 2007, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Well it is what is. I'm pretty much a dedicated beastmaster (B/P) Although I play other builds, pet builds are definitely my favorite. And, like you say, I am attached to my stalker, Muffin. No other pet has been anywhere near a temptation to trade in my Muffin. I've always hooked up any other pets I like with my heroes rather than trade in my Muffin... until the absolutely beautiful Rainbow Phoenix turned up in my Hall of Monuments. Uggghhh.... arrggghhhh.... gaagghhhh... I have to make a decision?

Well I won't give up my Muffin now, but eventually... not until GW2 is released hopefully... I will make a decision. In the meantime I will enjoy her whenever I go to my H0M.

Crimso · Sep 16, 2007, 08:56 PM // 20:56

I was thinking maby the rainbow phoenix should'nt be for PKM. Since it is the HOM I think you should be able to get it for getting 30 different things shown on the monument(the ones at the honor,valor and resilience should count as 1 point and The minipets 1 point for every 2 and hero's and pets should be 1 point for every 2 shown).

All in all I think it should be a prize for filling up your Hall alot rather then filling up just the honor section.

Hyper.nl · Sep 16, 2007, 09:21 PM // 21:21

I love the looks of the Rainbow Phoenix but since I'm E/D I don't really have an use for it. I can't afford to switch to E/R because ranger has insufficient synergy with my primary profession and a pet would take too much precious space on my skill bar.

Hm, I've got an idea, what about allowing the rank 2 KoaBD characters to get a Rainbow Phoenix or a customized miniature Rainbow Phoenix?

Curse You · Sep 17, 2007, 12:50 AM // 00:50

[QUOTE=Hyper.nl]I love the looks of the Rainbow Phoenix but since I'm E/D I don't really have an use for it. I can't afford to switch to E/R because ranger has insufficient synergy with my primary profession and a pet would take too much precious space on my skill bar./QUOTE] You can change your secondary profession as much as you want. That's why almost all of my characters have their own pet, even though most aren't secondary Rangers.

Hyper.nl · Sep 17, 2007, 01:32 AM // 01:32

[QUOTE=Curse You]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper.nl

I love the looks of the Rainbow Phoenix but since I'm E/D I don't really have an use for it. I can't afford to switch to E/R because ranger has insufficient synergy with my primary profession and a pet would take too much precious space on my skill bar./QUOTE] You can change your secondary profession as much as you want. That's why almost all of my characters have their own pet, even though most aren't secondary Rangers.

Sure, but what use has it to have a charmed pet when you haven't equipped it?? ;-)

Antheus · Sep 17, 2007, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Quote:

Allright let me start off by saying I'm starting this topic here due to the GWO forums being too filled with flamewars and people not even listening, and me being optimistic that the guru forums can provide a bit better.

You must be new here...

I'd have no problem if the criteria for obtaining it were account-wide. This way, it's such a waste, that until now, I didn't even know Rainbow Phoenix exists.

And since the character I got stuck with for titles is monk, this matters to me as little as last year's snow.

RIP "Skill over time spent".